tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post7808191290433435364..comments2023-05-30T10:15:40.341-04:00Comments on Comics Ate My Brain: Kids -- they'll age you!Tom Bonduranthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07209820912557263080noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-9777888739649165722009-07-11T00:53:13.400-04:002009-07-11T00:53:13.400-04:00I see the DCU as a fictional setting where all the...I see the DCU as a fictional setting where all the "contemporary" characters experience the passage of time at the same pace. IMHO that's intrinsic to a shared universe. Not all the writers necessarily agree, or even care, though.<br /><br />As for Bart, BTW, his return happened in <i>Legion of Three Worlds.</i>Chris M.http://www.dcutimeline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-45561559832118718002009-07-10T10:23:17.651-04:002009-07-10T10:23:17.651-04:00Just curious though... what do you think of Dick G...Just curious though... what do you think of Dick Grayson as Batman?<br /><br />I'm really liking how both <i>Batman</i> & B&R are being written, I'm also enjoying <i>Red Robin</i> (does making Tim Red Robin mean that they'll finally let him become 20 years old?).<br /><br />By this rationale, do different books operate on different timelines? I mean, how does The Flash fit into all of this? How old is Wally. And I may have missed it but I don't believe I've seen a full explanation of Bart's return. Was the Bart that was killed from a different Earth, or was he the same Bart, but they were able to bring him back from the future BEFORE his death (and wouldn't that create a paradox of some sort?)... Oh and with Barry back... his and Wally's costumes are too similar... any plans to change Wally's costume-- I'd love to see him adopt the Walter West/Dark Flash costume or some variation thereof just to better separate Wally from Barry. <br /><br />I ask these questions because of Dick's ties to the New Teen Titans/New Titans/Titans. I also found that Dick's departure from The Titans as Nightwing mirrored his departure from the New Teen Titans as Robin back in issue #39.<br /><br />Oh and is it just me, or does Tim as Red Robin more closely resemble Bruce as Batman than Dick Grayson's Batman? I like the darker, more brooding Tim. Given all he's been through it fits his character.Perplexiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09971805688658949769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-341369047028779332009-07-10T01:31:51.049-04:002009-07-10T01:31:51.049-04:00Dang. I haven't read B&R #2 yet. Guess I&#...Dang. I haven't read B&R #2 yet. Guess I'll have to take account of that...Chris M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01460731256952360737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-73172679113390990782009-07-09T21:46:29.054-04:002009-07-09T21:46:29.054-04:00P.S. Good points about Bruce's rejuvenations....P.S. Good points about Bruce's rejuvenations.Tom Bonduranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07209820912557263080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-68748660700531418352009-07-09T21:41:44.093-04:002009-07-09T21:41:44.093-04:00Thanks for the insights, Chris! I did get the new...Thanks for the insights, Chris! I did get the news about the update and look forward to checking it out.<br /><br />And not to throw cold water on your calculations, but Dick reminded Damian that the latter was just ten years old in last week's <em>B&R</em> #2. Maybe he's on the high side of nine, and Dick was rounding up...? :-)Tom Bonduranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07209820912557263080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-52595040572761349702009-07-09T02:35:23.421-04:002009-07-09T02:35:23.421-04:00Hi, Tom!
First of all, thanks for the free plug f...Hi, Tom!<br /><br />First of all, thanks for the free plug for my site. Hope you like the latest update (bringing things up past BFTC).<br /><br />You take a very methodical approach here, but (as you anticipated) I do have to quibble with a couple of your assumptions. First of all: Grant may say in an <i>interview</i> that Damian's ten, but all that's appeared <i>on the page</i> is Bruce's remark that Damian was almost as old (when they met) as Bruce had been when his parents were shot. We know (from Miller's Y1) that Bruce was eight then, so Damian must've been likewise, and thus no more than nine now. <br /><br />Second, no matter what DC "refuses" to put on the record, there's just no way Tim's still a teenager. (If we were really to accept that he's permanently under 20, then that would limit all DCU events since his debut to no more than a six-year span <i>ad infinitum</i>, which makes attempts at logical deduction like this pointless — as OneFineMess argues.)<br /><br />So: that said, I currently put the Crisis (and Dick's change to Nightwing and 20th birthday) 11 years ago, SOTB ten years ago, and Damian's birth nine years ago. (I agree with you that SOTB had to be the conception. Notwithstanding hypothetical earlier opportunities, it was the only story that had not only Bruce/Talia sex but an actual pregnancy <i>in the plot</i>, including her lying about a miscarriage. Using any other starting point would be absurd.)<br /><br />As for Dick's debut age, yeah, Wolfman said eight, but it never really fit. Most recently, we saw Dick starting middle school in Robin:Y1, so that makes him 12 then (which still appears to be Bruce's Y3). Thus, he was 11 when his parents were killed the year before -- and I likewise agree that Tim must've been at least two when he witnessed that, so he's no more than 9 years younger than Dick.<br /><br />This all fits with Dick being Bruce's partner for six years, then leaving at 18, and spending some time in college then a year-plus with the Titans before becoming Nightwing.<br /><br />In this framework Jason spent less than two years as Robin, say ages 12-13.<br /><br />And as you noted, Bruce was 25 at the start of Y1. <br /><br />Put it all together, and (to sum up what my site lays out in much greater detail), the Crisis was in Year 11, and we're currently late in Year 22. Bruce is 47, Dick is 31, Jason is 23, Tim is 22, and Damian is 9.<br /><br />Yeah, 47 is getting up there, but remember (even before the Omega Sanction), Bruce has been Magically Restored at least three times: once by a Lazarus Pit, once by Shondra Kinsolving, and once (most recently) by the Fountain of Life in Nanda Parbat.<br /><br />(Ravager offers some interesting reasoning as well, BTW, but has no sources for his assumptions about how long certain events took or what years they happened in, so IMHO he comes in a couple of years off.)Chris M.http://www.dcutimeline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-6829069718131678052009-06-13T17:23:47.297-04:002009-06-13T17:23:47.297-04:00This is some good comic thinking, unfortunately it...This is some good comic thinking, unfortunately it will fall prey to the same kind of $$-driven hijinks that ruin any attempts by fans to make sense of DC (and Marvel) continuity:<br /><br />The final authorities at the respective companies don't care how old the characters are. They care how much money they will/can make.<br /><br />If that means character x is age y in story z, then age q in story m - so be it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-64504328934888696642009-06-13T05:17:52.689-04:002009-06-13T05:17:52.689-04:00The time-line was reset again in Infinite Crisis, ...The time-line was reset again in Infinite Crisis, just a few years ago. Everything takes place on New Earth now.Williamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-86023724649733961202009-06-12T22:34:46.386-04:002009-06-12T22:34:46.386-04:00sorry a typo
zero hour takes 4 years after the fir...sorry a typo<br />zero hour takes 4 years after the first crisis not before<br /><br />and is year 12-13 during officer downRavagernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-31224769305437309572009-06-12T22:26:21.252-04:002009-06-12T22:26:21.252-04:00ok first there is no way that Dick had 8 when he b...ok first there is no way that Dick had 8 when he became robin<br />even in miller´s all-star b&r he is 12 and miller admit to have used a younger age<br />dick became robin at 14 at the least<br /><br />i think i heard somewhere that Jason died during Year Ten<br />making dick 21(if using 14yo) and Bruce 35<br /><br />acouple of months later Tim Drake become robin at age 13<br />including months of the training<br /><br />shortly after the start of the new robin career Knight Fall begins<br />so this place us in between year 10-11<br /><br />during year 11 we have knight quest, knight end and then zero hour<br /><br />now zero hour is placed 4 years before the first crisis<br />a year after zero hour is judgment day and judgment day is placed during the middle of no man land story<br /><br />so we can say that we are still on year 11 then there was contagion and cataclysm, after shock<br />no man land last exactly 1 year starts on december of year 11<br />ends on december year 12<br /><br />so at the begin of year 14 we get officer down, bruce wayne murderer and bruce wayne fugitive, BW takes 9 months on clearing his name<br />during it says that it was like 25 years since the dead of his fathers<br />so we are on year 12-13 during BW:murderer <br /><br />after that we get hush, war games, war crimes and then the return of redhood and then he second crisis<br />no order in time so we can only guess<br /><br />but there is a trick<br />after no man land luthor became president and start the BW: murderer story<br />so he become pres on year 12-13<br /><br />and he was pres for 3 years <br />Infinite crisis starts a couple of months after his disappearance<br /><br />so after OYL we are on year 16<br />a year after OYL the final crisis hits<br />so its currently year 17-18<br /><br />Tim was 5yo during year 3 so that makes Tim 19-20<br />Dick is 32-33<br />Bruce is 43-44<br />which means that Damien was born during year 7 or 6 (but he seems older)<br /><br />anyways the easier way to know the Exact year is that James Gordon Jr appears and say ¨hi today is my 18 birthday¨Ravagernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-85516855194314278522009-06-12T15:16:19.860-04:002009-06-12T15:16:19.860-04:00Yeah, in the current timeline I don't think Di...Yeah, in the current timeline I don't think Dick was an 8-year-old Robin either. Chris says he was 12 at the beginning, and I figured he was around 14.Tom Bonduranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07209820912557263080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-28585990448873829832009-06-12T15:09:40.047-04:002009-06-12T15:09:40.047-04:00That said, I should note that my figuring of Tim&#...That said, I should note that my figuring of Tim's age was based on when I was reading books with him regularly (pre-Identity Crisis). With everything that's happened to him, being 17 or 18 is more likely now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-5805649373909587862009-06-12T15:05:55.686-04:002009-06-12T15:05:55.686-04:00I think the Wolfman position that Grayson was Robi...I think the Wolfman position that Grayson was Robin since age 8 probably doesn't fly in the mainline continuity anymore. The idea of a very young child being drafted into dangerous vigilantism is a lot less acceptable to modern readers than it would have been even back in the 80s, so I can't imagine that Dick's age at the start hasn't been internally retconned to at least 13 or 14 now. A Robin career of 4 to 7 years seems more than reasonable to me.<br /><br />If you need an in-story excuse for the change, there's only been about a dozen timeline-altering mega-crossovers between when Wolfman was writing Titans and now to justify it.<br /><br />Completely divorced from in-story timelines, I've always perceived Bruce as about 42, Dick 27 and Tim around 15. Never really gave Jason much thought, but he'd probably be about 23 using the same rough approximations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-91528531609496299472009-06-12T10:42:20.927-04:002009-06-12T10:42:20.927-04:00Is it possible that Damian's test tube develop...Is it possible that Damian's test tube development was sped up to have him be "physically" 10 years old? Thus skipping time as an infant, toddler, etc.? Especially with the replacement of organs and such?JBSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-20719180274773429192009-06-10T17:27:53.655-04:002009-06-10T17:27:53.655-04:00Thanks, David!
1. Talia first appeared in Detect...Thanks, David!<br /><br />1. Talia first appeared in <em>Detective</em> #411 (cover-dated May 1971), a month before her dad showed up in <em>Batman</em> #232 (June 1971). In that first story, Talia was alone with an unconscious Batman (and unmasked him to boot), so I suppose she could have collected some genetic material from him then (... eww). This would make Bruce and Dick four years younger, and leave us in Year 16.<br /><br />However, I prefer to use <em>Son of the Demon</em> because it shows Bruce and Talia finally going all the way, releasing all that unresolved sexual tension which had been building over the years. It gives Bruce and Damian an emotional connection they wouldn't have had if Damian were just a test-tube heir. I figure Bruce would have done the math and realized that he was an active participant in Damian's conception.<br /><br />(Crikey, I feel like a dirty old man talking about this.... :-))<br /><br />2. I suppose that's up to Grant Morrison, but I don't see anything which would de-age Bruce. He's just lost in the past, not "preserved" like Hal was.Tom Bonduranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07209820912557263080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7629130.post-24633410486894630212009-06-10T16:12:37.082-04:002009-06-10T16:12:37.082-04:00Two thoughts:
1. If I remember correctly, Denny O...Two thoughts:<br /><br />1. If I remember correctly, Denny O'Neal's first Ra's story showed Ra's calling Bruce out as his heir and Talia's love. Of course, Bruce had the oval then, too.<br /><br />2. Does Bruce have to be physically 44 when he eventually returns, or will be be physically younger, a la Hal Jordan?<br /><br />Good stuff!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240492543743819508noreply@blogger.com